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Adalbert
10-06-2009, 09:41 AM
I know that graphics are not everything, but in this game everything would be square.
We have 2009 year so graphic that shows this game is 2006. In one Moment shall be DX11.

I hope that
units will not be passed by each other as in a Stronghold 2.

Henry Martin
10-06-2009, 10:05 AM
I know that graphics are not everything, but in this game everything would be square.
We have 2009 year so graphic that shows this game is 2006. In one Moment shall be DX11.

I hope that
units will not be passed by each other as in a Stronghold 2.

I understand where you are coming from, but one question do you know how games are made. First games cost money and time (this is a big part and as they don't have a publisher who mostly pays for games). This is not a large developer so they might not have the money to put into a high quality engine. the the better the graphics the higher the system requirements. Since this is a RTS, the more units you have on screen the more the engine will have to render, the better computer you will need. If you look at most RTS that have been out the last few years you will see that the units aren't very detailed. Again This is not a large rich company so you need to rethink you statement.

This is also the beta so the graphics can still improve. I am going to school to become a game developer (but I want to be a level designer) and I get a lot of insight from my teacher who some have been in the industry. Now I'm not try to hurt and feelings, but before you make statements on something that you might not know how it works, think about it.

Anyone feel free to correct me of my put together statements.:)

Feweh
10-06-2009, 10:06 AM
I gotta agree.

Graphics arent everything but they are realllly pushing the limit here.




Normally i'd write a collum about how it needs to be changed but seriously this game has been delayed SOOOOOOOOO MUCH i really dont even care anymore :P

wills370
10-06-2009, 10:51 AM
The graphics are great. What is a slight problem however is that the videos they release are in a far smaller resolution and therefore dont show the full detail of the game then what it will actually be.

The engine is great and there are a number of features and removable options on the engine to remove unwanted features. (such as debris under the trees). To suit all computer capability's Within reason.

This engine is highly detailed one example of this is the detail within the grass and waterfalls (see screenshotss thread). Theese show off the game better in what it will be like.


also as we know there will be more graphic work done. (example they are looking for a designer to produce 300+ buttons to which can be applied to units). this shows the level of detail they are going to be achieving.

Yes the graphics in this on a per unit basis wont be as good as a first person shooter. But it will definatly be on par with empire total war or more comparitivly medieval total war 2 and will most likly suceed this.

I really dont think you will need to worry about the graphics.

Puppeteer
10-06-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm satisfied with the current graphics. I like the style, and don't think it needs improvement.

wills370
10-06-2009, 01:13 PM
I'm satisfied with the current graphics. I like the style, and don't think it needs improvement.

Agreed for what they are setting out to do it is fantastic.

Jean=A=Luc
10-06-2009, 02:07 PM
The graphics are fine and hopefully they'll allow a wide range of configurations to run the game.

LiTos456
10-06-2009, 02:36 PM
yes I think the graphics are alright. Considering that we're getting thousands of units on screen I think it's worth it.

Baxter
10-06-2009, 05:49 PM
I don't think the graphics are done yet. Still in Beta, they will probably still add some polishing to the textures and effects anways.

Konstantin Fomenko
10-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Graphics are not final. We are still missing some visual technology - Field of Depth, Distance fog to name a couple.

The main problem it the low-poly art we used, instead of high-poly art - this makes all the difference. With-in 2 months we`ll know if publisher will pay to upgrade all the art assets to high-poly - this would make a huge difference.

LiTos456
10-06-2009, 06:59 PM
The main problem it the low-poly art we used, instead of high-poly art - this makes all the difference. With-in 2 months we`ll know if publisher will pay to upgrade all the art assets to high-poly - this would make a huge difference.

How much would it actually cost?

Baxter
10-06-2009, 07:54 PM
I will probably be incinerated for saying this as I know people of this community probably feel like they have been waiting forever for the game release but.........I am definately more concerned about good gameplay than good graphics but if it takes 2 months extra and you have the luxury of taking another two months and the financing (I'm sure they would be improving other things along side the graphics at the same time too) then a couple extra more months of waiting is a small price to pay if it means a better game upon release.

Ok, torch me at the stake.

Konstantin Fomenko
10-06-2009, 08:26 PM
How much would it actually cost?

First time someone asks a question like this - around 75,000 Euro for character and building art close to the Mount and Blade quality. DoF will look slightly better at the max zoom out, but much, much better zoomed in.

At this point it`s publisher`s call - as soon as we know (December) we`ll be sure to let you know.

Josh Warner
10-06-2009, 09:19 PM
First time someone asks a question like this - around 75,000 Euro for character and building art close to the Mount and Blade quality. DoF will look slightly better at the max zoom out, but much, much better zoomed in.

At this point it`s publisher`s call - as soon as we know (December) we`ll be sure to let you know.

Low poly counts are useful for when you're dealing with going in and out of the battle map in MMORTS, wouldn't it? It could very well be minimal or no effect at all for all I know I suppose, just seems like it would. Have everything load low-poly, then slowly start adding the high poly counts. Lots of other games load everything low-poly then start replacing things with the high poly stuff. Or can you just scale the high poly model, don't need two unique ones? No idea.

While having them available is nice, I'd just as soon play without them - even if I had a computer that can perform with them. if I have time to be zooming in and looking at my units, I have time that I could be putting to good use :p.

Henry Martin
10-06-2009, 10:52 PM
Low poly counts are useful for when you're dealing with going in and out of the battle map in MMORTS, wouldn't it? It could very well be minimal or no effect at all for all I know I suppose, just seems like it would. Have everything load low-poly, then slowly start adding the high poly counts. Lots of other games load everything low-poly then start replacing things with the high poly stuff. Or can you just scale the high poly model, don't need two unique ones? No idea.

While having them available is nice, I'd just as soon play without them - even if I had a computer that can perform with them. if I have time to be zooming in and looking at my units, I have time that I could be putting to good use :p.

games use a mixture of high poly and low poly, they use it as Level of detail. I don't know if you know this, but a good example is total war series. when you are zoomed into max the models are at their highest detail level as you start zooming out they switch to lower quality model units, as you hit max zoom out they use sprites for the models.

Josh Warner
10-06-2009, 11:06 PM
games use a mixture of high poly and low poly, they use it as Level of detail. I don't know if you know this, but a good example is total war series. when you are zoomed into max the models are at their highest detail level as you start zooming out they switch to lower quality model units, as you hit max zoom out they use sprites for the models.

I'm well aware of how that works, but this is something different - you load in near something, or move close to something quickly, and it remains low poly, then loads high poly. It might be the same process but it's used differently than a zoom scale, I know how that works.

A good example if you have it is mass effect, save near certain objects, then load the save. Sometimes the ground will appear blocky as will some objects for a short time, then the high poly models load.

wills370
10-07-2009, 02:17 AM
I think personally this would improve the game no end. People are looking for the best graphics now and if the game can secure the finance to do this then it is worth it. Now where did i put that 75K :P lol.

On another note however, will we find out at the same time who this mystery developer is?

Josh Warner
10-07-2009, 02:31 AM
I think personally this would improve the game no end. People are looking for the best graphics now and if the game can secure the finance to do this then it is worth it. Now where did i put that 75K :P lol.

On another note however, will we find out at the same time who this mystery publisher is?

And I hope so, I want to know that they got a decent developer that can actually afford to fund the game without taking creative control and driving it into the ground, that'd be even better news than more screenshots/MMORTS info.

Chris Harshman
10-07-2009, 09:02 AM
as you hit max zoom out they use sprites for the models.


Actually it is still a 3D model.

bogdan1281
10-07-2009, 10:15 AM
The graphics are lets say "average" at this level; more importantly i think is the game play.

I've been playing real old games and the playing experiece was much much better as with the new much better looking games.

Can't wait for the open beta :)...or even the close beta :)

Henry Martin
10-07-2009, 01:55 PM
Actually it is still a 3D model.

No, if you look it up they do use sprites when you are the furthest away from the units. I know as I am a modder for the total war series.

wills370
10-08-2009, 03:16 AM
No, if you look it up they do use sprites when you are the furthest away from the units. I know as I am a modder for the total war series.

Cool to know,how easy will the units in DOF be to mod?

Henry Martin
10-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Cool to know,how easy will the units in DOF be to mod?

From the looks of it they shouldn't be too hard as the units only look like they are around a few hundred polys (which is very low poly). One thing you should keep in mind for modding is if you can reuse do (don't try and reinvent the wheel). In totar war I reuse the units to model other units which makes the process faster even though I know how to model (I just made a dragon out of a horse, lol).

For me though it might be easier as I know how to model, texture, skin the mesh (give the mesh bones for animation) and animate. I don't know how in depth the unit editor will be (this could make it easier).

hope this answers you question.:confused:

Ironic
10-10-2009, 05:50 AM
the biggest problem with the current admitedly dated graphics ( dont yell at me, gameplay > graphics anyday, id rather play dwarf fortress than crysis )is not that the people who have watched this game for a while and interested already wont buy it, they are most likly going to buy it anyway, the problem lies in the average mmo punter: will putting the extra recources in for better graphics at launch stop this going under like so many other games, particularly mmo's because people see some screens and go "Omg its ugly, must be crap".

Bailin145
11-04-2009, 08:13 PM
I like the graphics so far, The Terrain is Amazing from all the screen shots I've seen. :)

Darathor
11-05-2009, 07:10 PM
The graphics really are quite good, and if there will be possibly thousands of units on a screen, then you don't want each one to be really detailed with stuff like unique facial expressions.:)

treelin
11-11-2009, 07:24 PM
The graphics look fine to me... You might find that ODD sense i toyed around with Everquest2 with its outstanding graphics but thats a different category game :)


Im just glad this game is coming soon, the thought of persistant World..City being saved, armies carrying over to another battle without the hassle of rebuilding like in other RTS games where you join a game, you start from scratch which was annoying but in this mmorts, i think ive found a home, as long as there is no crashing to desktop or memory leaks il be living in this persistant world rather than my humane world heeehee :D

ash12181987
11-23-2009, 11:25 AM
The graphics are fine, it has been shown time and again that great gameplay can make up for them.

SvN
11-23-2009, 11:30 AM
graphics are good but not enough to match other games on the market today

Darathor
11-23-2009, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't expect them to with the budget these guys probably have. The graphics aren't up to par with most higher budget games but that's because they have more money. The graphics are fine and the gameplay will hopefully speak about the awesomeness of the game for itself. If this game is a huge success (which I think and hope it will be) the graphics will probably be better in a sequel if they choose to make one. The graphics are fine enough to be able to enjoy them but not enough to become really expensive. Also, they seem even more fine with the thought that there will be so many units on the screen at once. Thousands of super awesome graphically-wise units=lagfest.

zach12wqasxz
11-23-2009, 05:45 PM
im not an expert on this but what does money have to do increaseing poly counts on unit models? ( i have 0 education in this feild )

Chris Harshman
11-23-2009, 10:58 PM
im not an expert on this but what does money have to do increaseing poly counts on unit models? ( i have 0 education in this feild )

In General,

Producing Takes Time, Which Takes Money.

wills370
11-25-2009, 03:31 AM
In General,

Producing Takes Time, Which Takes Money.

did you get the investment in the end to up the graphics. Sorry didnt post the results so not sure if the publisher coughed up the cash or not. the game looks fantastic in screens anyway so not sure if that answers my question myself lol.

hatakehia
11-29-2009, 06:08 PM
i think the graphics are prefect they don't need to be flashy i would rather the developer focus on the gameplay & fixing the bugs then worrying about the graphics.lol im just glad its 3d:D

Ovocean
12-07-2009, 07:31 AM
I do hope you'll get the funds for the graphics enhancement, I just love looking at little details and just don't like when polygons / low-res textures are obvious. The last Anno games dealt with this perfectly, the closest allowed zoom keeps the models and textures perfectly detailed.

In terms of success for DoF, judging from the comments in games reviewer websites, a vast majority of players are blinded by the graphics, if it's pretty they drool, if it's blocky they hiss or just pass on to the next flashy blockbuster.
I'm persuaded that the short and long term benefit and fame increase is well worth the 75k .

On a side note, you could just avoid providing zoomed in screenshots and trailer scenes and most of the players depicted above would be tricked. :)

Kaznafein
12-07-2009, 06:20 PM
It's not a problem for me I would defiantly play this game with the current graphics. If it gets upgraded even better. The graphics would be mid to lower level on my list. I Would much rather have the devs concentrate on game play and fun things to do in the online mode.

BTW so far pretty much everything I've seen has just made me want to play the game more gj devs keep up the good work.;)

Darathor
12-08-2009, 04:51 PM
The graphics are fine as they are, I think the game just needs to be finished and later on, perhaps in a patch or expansion, they could make the graphics better.

Ovocean
12-09-2009, 04:38 AM
The graphics are fine as they are, I think the game just needs to be finished and later on, perhaps in a patch or expansion, they could make the graphics better.Well, if they do it, they'd better do it now. Spending this much money in a patch or an expansion would make no sense and cause their ruin.

Darathor
12-09-2009, 07:56 AM
I wasn't saying all at once. Gradually might work better, and why would it be their ruin exactly? It's just that the game has been in development so long, it would be nice to see it done sooner rather than later. If they think the graphics should be upgraded, then fine by me. I just don't want any unnecessary delays.

Ovocean
12-09-2009, 09:20 AM
Why would it be their ruin ? Well, let's forget this assumption but what's sure is that games in general make most of their sales in the first weeks after the first release. The impact of the reviews is surely very important and reviewers don't change the marks of the original game when patches or expansions come out. And the marketing follow this scheme, most of it is done the months before release, and drops soon after it.
So, if they are to make such a big improvement to the game, it's to be done before release.

Jack
12-09-2009, 09:55 AM
i never played the game
but can somewhan tell on which rts game does it looks the most like

(my english is not always good)

Darathor
12-09-2009, 04:22 PM
i never played the game
but can somewhan tell on which rts game does it looks the most like

(my english is not always good)

It is somewhat similar to age of kings.

Why would it be their ruin ? Well, let's forget this assumption but what's sure is that games in general make most of their sales in the first weeks after the first release. The impact of the reviews is surely very important and reviewers don't change the marks of the original game when patches or expansions come out. And the marketing follow this scheme, most of it is done the months before release, and drops soon after it.
So, if they are to make such a big improvement to the game, it's to be done before release.

I don't think the reviews would be bad solely based on the graphics. It might be a small discouragement, but nothing big at all. The graphics are pretty good, especially considering that there will be thousands of units on your screen at once. They do review expansions, though. And hopefully, if an expansion comes out, almost everyone will buy, so the graphics will have improved. I do agree, though, that it would probably be wiser to do it now, or in a sequel. And also, mmo's don't get most of their sales in the first few weeks.

Ovocean
12-09-2009, 06:02 PM
The graphics are pretty good, especially considering that there will be thousands of units on your screen at once.
Just have a look at this trailer (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos_editeurs/0001/00019492/kingdom_under_fire_ii_f1q1.htm#containerlienVoirDi rectementlaVideo) of Kingdom Under Fire 2, it's the game engine. DoF is really aged in terms of graphics compared to this.
I still find DoF looks great on zoomed out screenshots, but as there seem to be plenty of cutscenes with close-ups, we'll really feel the 100 polygons models.

Lordadamar
12-09-2009, 06:48 PM
Any of you that are real concerned about graphics try to play Empire total war on low end Graphics card it wont happen... It will even give a high end card a workout on maxxed settings..

I myself enjoy eye candy, they are several games from 2006-2007 that were ahead of the curve, Example Oblivion That engine was awesome still play that game...

I don't think i would pay to play a game though that didn't at least meet current standards now I not saying program for Shaders 4.0 or for a geforce 290 series. Geforce 9 series cards already produce more color than you can physically see and use DX10/11.

You have to admit to spend $50 on a game and $15 month would be a great deterrent if it looked like Settlers or Similar titles..

Hey Dof buy some rights to the Crysis Engine, Aion runs that and the game looks spectacular... lol yah right

zach12wqasxz
12-09-2009, 07:46 PM
Just have a look at this trailer (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos_editeurs/0001/00019492/kingdom_under_fire_ii_f1q1.htm#containerlienVoirDi rectementlaVideo) of Kingdom Under Fire 2, it's the game engine. DoF is really aged in terms of graphics compared to this.
I still find DoF looks great on zoomed out screenshots, but as there seem to be plenty of cutscenes with close-ups, we'll really feel the 100 polygons models.

that trailer is slightly enhanced, but yes the graphics a much better, BUT, this game doesn't involve you building up a city and troops and micro managing your economy. so you really cant compare one game with good graphics, but with little content, to game with a huge amount of content, and acceptable graphics
though kingdom under fire2 is #2 in my most anticipated game ever
next to dawn of fantasy which is #1

Ovocean
12-09-2009, 08:05 PM
so you really cant compare one game with good graphics, but with little content, to game with a huge amount of content, and acceptable graphics
I was only answering to Darathor and others who think that because there is a thousand units on screen it has to be low quality. As you can see on Kingdom thing, there are tons of units on screen and they are perfectly detailed.

zach12wqasxz
12-09-2009, 08:10 PM
I was only answering to Darathor and others who think that because there is a thousand units on screen it has to be low quality. As you can see on Kingdom thing, there are tons of units on screen and they are perfectly detailed.

oh sorry if i came off all snappy, ya your right, i dont know how they have the such amazing quality, they must be using modern warfare's game engine lol

Darathor
12-09-2009, 08:44 PM
Just have a look at this trailer (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos_editeurs/0001/00019492/kingdom_under_fire_ii_f1q1.htm#containerlienVoirDi rectementlaVideo) of Kingdom Under Fire 2, it's the game engine. DoF is really aged in terms of graphics compared to this.
I still find DoF looks great on zoomed out screenshots, but as there seem to be plenty of cutscenes with close-ups, we'll really feel the 100 polygons models.

I've seen that trailer before, and, to be honest, it looks like it will lag horribly on the xbox, which it seems to be pushed for mainly. Bfme2 lags my xbox if I get perhaps 200 guys on it. However, I do agree that DoF graphics are dated, and I'm fine with them, but the general gamer might not. I'm not using that as a reason as, I have Rome: Total War and Medieval 2 Total War and those have all thousands of men with good graphics and it doesn't really lag. I'm just stating one reason as to why they might not be so great right now.

Jack
12-10-2009, 02:03 AM
i have seen that trailer that is pretty cool
but it are not the grapics because it is a movie
is the a gameplay movie that let me know how it is?
i want to see the grafics;)

Tynesider
12-16-2009, 12:31 AM
I would have to agree with what seems to be the main opinion ie game first graphics second, Though can appreciate others may feel different especially after viewing trailers for "kingdom under fire".

Marcos182
01-03-2010, 09:16 PM
Graphics rock. Its no dragon age but, if it was my computer would force me to turn the graphics down to run smoothly i'm sure.

TimidObserver
01-04-2010, 02:57 AM
I suspect that the graphics was an intentional decision. I think they want a lot of people to be able to play this game, and not everyone has an Alienware.

welshie
01-04-2010, 08:45 AM
Tbh the landscape and buildings look awsome to me, but the units is where i think the gfx arnt as pollished atm, hey maybe they will change this arround. And as already has been said game 1st gfx 2nd which is the winning combo look at world of warcraft when it first came out wasnt the best gfx and not pushing the boundiarys but lots of people could play it and the game init self was awsome (untill the expansions).

lonewolf9567
01-08-2010, 08:58 PM
i actually dont mind graphics that much so i can do with them being alittle 2006ish