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hashkage
10-03-2009, 08:43 AM
I was pondering about how the payment method would be to this game.

this is because i've heard alot of other developers saying that a 50 bucks
1-time paying method for an MMORTS/RPG would be impossible to make working because of the required staff and keeping the servers up.

If we exclude 1-time paying then there is a few options:

Microtransactions: Though this is an effective way, it will imbalace the game, making the winner the one who pays most.

Monthly fee: paying every mont you play (or every hour) would balance the game, though many people for some reason don't like this method, therefore it will probably decrease the number of players, and therefore the playing experience.

Donations: Living of people being nice is good, but it will be a very unpredictable income; and probably not enough.

Addvertisements: Pop-up windows and different adds within the game could maybe be am efficient way, though personally I would hate adds poping up, and other crappy adds. Maybe you could play free with adds or donate/monthly payment to get rid of them.

The payment method i'd prefer would be montly payment, or a 1-time pay, though i think with 1-time pay, there would be to poor customer support.

skybladerz
10-03-2009, 09:23 AM
i like the 1 time payment method becasue i can jsut go 2 the store and get it

And i can tell you why people dont like monthy...

1st off, the economy sucks, and we cant have added bills, second, i dont have a paypal account becasue i dont trust them, and neither do a lot of other people and i dont have a credit card either even if i did i wouldnt spend it on a game, even if it is the best MMORTS there is (that was a compliant). Third, its easier to jsut have it 1 time play, thats what Guild Wars does, and they seem to be working fine, and making guild wars 2.

Heres my idea. Have it as a 1 time pay, a B2P, then have a donate thing, and benifits for donators ( and not big enough to make them rigged, jsut good enough to have them want to donate) PLEASE NO ITEM MALL! you know what i mean :D

Alex Walz
10-03-2009, 09:34 AM
Reverie said there wouldn't be a monthly payment. :D
There will probably just be subtle ads.

Chris Harshman
10-03-2009, 09:42 AM
Reverie said there wouldn't be a monthly payment. :D
There will probably just be subtle ads.


Plus the One time up front Game cost, and Purchasing Influence.

sneaky_squirrel
10-03-2009, 09:52 AM
Microtransactions...Influence they call it ;p.

Don't worry about it and search the site for the "influence" discussion, you buy stuff with it, you can get it by playing real slowly, or get a LOT with cash.

100 influence = penny

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 12:26 PM
I'm too lazy right now to go find all the quotes, but the microtransaction currency can be earned by playing the game well. If you play a lot, and don't suck, you shouldn't need to buy much. THey've also hinted at caps.

You're also forgetting about the way the automatch works which means the game's pretty much always balanced.

On a side note, I'll never understand why people hate 15/month so much. The amount of time people play most MMOs, if they spent that playing other games they'd be spending 100+ a month on new games... MMOs are a very cost effective way to spend your time. And what's with people being unable to own a credit card, do you lack the willpower not to go into debt or something oO

Jean=A=Luc
10-03-2009, 12:59 PM
Payment method.

They prefer money. :p

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 01:12 PM
They prefer money. :p

How insightful. ;)

Konstantin Fomenko
10-03-2009, 01:38 PM
One time payment to buy the game, no monthly fee.

Micro-transactions will be a big part of the game (for players who choose to incorporate that into their gameplay experience and cut a few corners).

All micro transactions are done with the Influence (or Wealth, not sure about the name yet) resource - that can be gained through regular gameplay, or purchased at http://exchange.dawnoffantasy.com/ (this is temp site)

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 01:51 PM
One time payment to buy the game, no monthly fee.

Micro-transactions will be a big part of the game (for players who choose to incorporate that into their gameplay experience and cut a few corners).

All micro transactions are done with the Influence (or Wealth, not sure about the name yet) resource - that can be gained through regular gameplay, or purchased at http://exchange.dawnoffantasy.com/ (this is temp site)

Glad to see things coming along well in that regard. I really can't wait to figure out how influence(wealth) is gained in the game itself though.



And for those worried about microtransactions, I'll say - I hate them as much as the next person in most games. But several things about this game keep things very balanced. Automatch for one keeps the armies you fight balanced, maybe you won't be on a leaderboard or something compared to those that pay a lot of money, but you should be able to hold your own in battles. There are several other smaller features, such as gaining influence(or wealth) just by playing the game and the fact that this isn't an mmorpg, it's not a battle of numbers. Outplaying someone with a better army will be possible. Until we actually get to playing and testing how everything works, I wouldn't worry too much friends.

sneaky_squirrel
10-03-2009, 02:18 PM
In my opinion, I fnd MMORPGs utterly boring, not one until now has achieved what I want in an MMO (Fun), lol.

I'd say go with influence instead of wealth.

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 02:33 PM
In my opinion, I fnd MMORPGs utterly boring, not one until now has achieved what I want in an MMO (Fun), lol.

I'd say go with influence instead of wealth.

I like the idea of influence as well, when I think of influence it's as if you ask a neighboring lord or whatever for this and that, and they give it to you because of your renown/reputation. Wealth seems redundant with gold in the game.

Jean=A=Luc
10-03-2009, 03:30 PM
I'd say go with influence instead of wealth.

"Renown" (an archaic form of the word "fame") would be a good word imo since you get it for completing quests, winning battles, etc.

cybroxis
10-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Wait so you need influence to recruit units youve already unlocked?
I thought you'd be able to train those with grain and stuff and use influence to buy new units (new as in thought up regularly). And so you're saying you need to pay to have enough influence to have a chance at challenging top players? :(

Puppeteer
10-03-2009, 03:42 PM
"Renown" (an archaic form of the word "fame") would be a good word imo since you get it for completing quests, winning battles, etc.

I disagree. Renown within your own kingdom? Yeah, that makes sense... best stick with influence.

hashkage
10-03-2009, 03:46 PM
They prefer money. :p

No cookies :(

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 03:47 PM
"Renown" (an archaic form of the word "fame") would be a good word imo since you get it for completing quests, winning battles, etc.

So stole 'renown'! dirty thief Picard!

Wait so you need influence to recruit units youve already unlocked?
I thought you'd be able to train those with grain and stuff and use influence to buy new units (new as in thought up regularly). And so you're saying you need to pay to have enough influence to have a chance at challenging top players? :(

I'm guessing a little of both here, certain units require influence to train. I'm thinking like merc units otherwise unattainable, think a small dragon, or some dwarves maybe. Then you have unlocked units like super expensive/elite versions of your own, or new units entirely that fill a different role, then you can after purchasing it recruit in game.

Joseph Visscher
10-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Wait so you need influence to recruit units youve already unlocked?
I thought you'd be able to train those with grain and stuff and use influence to buy new units (new as in thought up regularly). And so you're saying you need to pay to have enough influence to have a chance at challenging top players? :(

No the only thing that can take influence is the in-game online shop which unlocks new unique units that you can train, purchase resources or most of all unlock new content such as added quest packs, missions, maybe a co-op mission, new AI strongholds to visit in other parts of the world.

Players will most likely gain influence through won battles and completing special quests that come from AI cities. You will not have to buy (real money) influence, you will gain it slowly progressing through the game, we are simply giving you the option to purchase more of it to save time, you can play tons of games for a very long time to get enough influence to buy 10$ worth of content. Or you can just buy 10$ worth of influence and go on that bran new co-op quest with your friends with the your very own bran new unlocked Wise Warlock Wizard you always wanted.

But I am mostly looking forward to new content and quest packs,,, this will let us keep on making better and better maps and quests long after release of the game, and it will keep you guys playing with some new content every week.

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Well, my post is moot regarding influence lol. That sounds great Joseph. I really like the sound of new maps often, a big problem with RTSes for me is playing the exact same handful of maps all the time. No matter how well designed they are, they get old and boring.

Jean=A=Luc
10-03-2009, 04:18 PM
I disagree. Renown within your own kingdom? Yeah, that makes sense... best stick with influence.

I wasn't under the impression that it applies only to your territory and from what I understand you don't have a kingdom, rather you're a lord with a stronghold who is a part of a kingdom.

You're probably thinking since it's already your territory (assuming) you must already have great renown but the same goes for "influence". Actually it's more likely for a person of low renown but high influence to be, let's say, king than for a person with high renown but low influence in the land to achieve the same. Of course renown and influence often go hand in hand but my point is that while people of great renown also have great influence, people of high influence aren't necessarily renowned (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/renown) (example: Hitler).

Konstantin Fomenko
10-03-2009, 04:22 PM
To add to Joe`s post there is one more way to spend influence - Research. All of the research and advances, require some influence as well as regular resources.

However, still research takes a while, players who purchase influence for $, will not be able to get further ahead technologically.

Josh Warner
10-03-2009, 04:24 PM
To add to Joe`s post there is one more way to spend influence - Research. All of the research and advances, require some influence as well as regular resources.

However, still research takes a while, players who purchase influence for $, will not be able to get further ahead technologically.

I assume you either have several trees and you can only research one thing in each tree, or only one thing at a time then?

I wasn't under the impression that it applies only to your territory and from what I understand you don't have a kingdom, rather you're a lord with a stronghold who is a part of a kingdom.

I see your point and his, I must agree I was thinking a lord within a kingdom not a king, though.

Puppeteer
10-03-2009, 05:45 PM
And yet, Jean, not all those who are renowned have a big influence. Why would someone who is honoured be able to unlock these benefits (new units, technology, resources etc.) when a person who has good control over his land does not? For me, influence makes much more sense. Besides, you can argue semantics all you want, there's no right or wrong answer. And actually Hitler was renowned; did you not know of his personality cult, which was one of the four founding principles of the German Faith Movement? He was idolised. In fact, Hitler isn't a great example of having influence either - much of his policies were directed by his senior officials, who guessed the right course of action all in the name of sycophancy.

Jean=A=Luc
10-03-2009, 06:59 PM
He was idolised.

Depends on which side of the fence you are but the vast majority of the world did not, quite the opposite.

Still, as you said, I really don't want to argue semantics or over analyze (not really a worthy topic) but 'renown' is hardly the senseless choice you made it out to be. It's also a word that sits really well with medieval settings.

LiTos456
10-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Monthly payment blows for several reasons.
-Not all have credit cards - or their parents won't let them use it
-Not all have paypal - or trust it
-What if you get bored in the middle of the payment?
-It costs much, MUCH more to keep it up instead of buying it once.
-The economy sucks as someone said earlier so it's really unnecessary to add to your tax bill.

Yeah. 1 time pay ftw. With monthly pay they'll earn just as much money because not as many people will be playing it.

Josh Warner
10-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Monthly payment blows for several reasons.
-Not all have credit cards - or their parents won't let them use it
-Not all have paypal - or trust it
-What if you get bored in the middle of the payment?
-It costs much, MUCH more to keep it up instead of buying it once.
-The economy sucks as someone said earlier so it's really unnecessary to add to your tax bill.

Yeah. 1 time pay ftw. With monthly pay they'll earn just as much money because not as many people will be playing it.

Paypal is garbage, however credit cards are easy to get. Even at your age depending on where live, if you have any money you can easily get a pre-paid card that functions like a credit card without the credit part as it has a fixed amount in it.

I still don't see how it costs more to pay 15 a month for a game that is your primary game for months if not years, you save money not buying crappy games that last you a couple weeks if that. You might 'pay more' for the monthly fee, but the amount of content/hours of play compared to that cost is significantly better than traditional games by far. Microtransaction on the other hand can be a really good value, or a bad one. Because of it's flexibility inherent in it's nature it's entirely up to the devs to see to that. So far they haven't sounded greedy to me though, so I'm confident that'll be balanced.

LiTos456
10-04-2009, 11:17 AM
You really think these games are made to last 2 weeks to save your money? No the whole reason for these things is because they know people get addicted to this for months and go over paying 50 dollars for it, much over. And besides, Dawn of Fantasy will be awesome and I'll be playing it for a long time, MUCH more than 2 weeks. But with monthly pay I wouldn't be able to afford that and then everybody will be sad.
Also Paypal is actually pretty nice. My dad has been using it for years and it always helps me out in everything.

Josh Warner
10-04-2009, 11:26 AM
You really think these games are made to last 2 weeks to save your money? No the whole reason for these things is because they know people get addicted to this for months and go over paying 50 dollars for it, much over. And besides, Dawn of Fantasy will be awesome and I'll be playing it for a long time, MUCH more than 2 weeks. But with monthly pay I wouldn't be able to afford that and then everybody will be sad.
Also Paypal is actually pretty nice. My dad has been using it for years and it always helps me out in everything.

For the amount of hours played MMOs are good deals, not bad ones. That's just statistical nonsense to suggest otherwise. If you play several hours a day, 15/month will save you a great deal of money. You'd be buying several 50-60$ games a month! And for people like me that played 8+ easily a day, it saves me hundreds. If you only have a couple hours a week sure, it's not as great a deal, but most people don't play a couple hours a week, in fact very few do.

Also - paypal does suck. They burned me out several hundred USD for a bull**** reason. They essentially just took my money, then ignored my calls.

Supreme
10-04-2009, 11:28 AM
Dont think pre-paid creditcards can be bought here (yet). Nobody uses creditcards over here anyway..n33d m0re options.

LiTos456
10-04-2009, 11:44 AM
Also - paypal does suck. They burned me out several hundred USD for a bull**** reason. They essentially just took my money, then ignored my calls.

Sorry to hear that.
I won't argue with you but I think buying dof for 50 bucks will be much better than paying every month.
personally I can't afford to.

wills370
10-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Sorry to hear that.
I won't argue with you but I think buying dof for 50 bucks will be much better than paying every month.
personally I can't afford to.

Hmm i would prefer that also and then anything ontop can be bought like influence. Especially in the long run this will turn out better. As with all the patches etc people will be anoyed if they have to keep shelling out monthly and then buying the extras ontop.

Baxter
10-06-2009, 12:07 AM
I think the point is that somebody has to pay it. You pay 50 bucks for the game, that pays for them to develop it and provide you with the game, pay the salaries, expenses, ect.. - and yes even make a profit (hopefully).

The MMO part of it, the monthy subscription charges, or however it is payed for is to keep the servers running and keep paying the staff that is necessary to keep it working (and yes, again perhaps making some profit). Bandwidth costs money, keeping the servers running costs money, people costs money, and yes they make games to make a profit. If you do not have a renewable source of income such as a monthly fee, then you cannot keep up with the ongoing costs because eventually that initial 50 bucks you spent will get used up and there will be nothing left to pay for the ongoing expenses.

They said they will be supporting the ongoing costs with selling influence or other methods instead of a monthly fee. A game like this probably has very low overhead compared to a typical MMORPG which is why the monthly fee is needed. If WoW for example didn't charge $15 a month, it would no longer exist.

wills370
10-06-2009, 02:50 AM
I think the point is that somebody has to pay it. You pay 50 bucks for the game, that pays for them to develop it and provide you with the game, pay the salaries, expenses, ect.. - and yes even make a profit (hopefully).

The MMO part of it, the monthy subscription charges, or however it is payed for is to keep the servers running and keep paying the staff that is necessary to keep it working (and yes, again perhaps making some profit). Bandwidth costs money, keeping the servers running costs money, people costs money, and yes they make games to make a profit. If you do not have a renewable source of income such as a monthly fee, then you cannot keep up with the ongoing costs because eventually that initial 50 bucks you spent will get used up and there will be nothing left to pay for the ongoing expenses.

They said they will be supporting the ongoing costs with selling influence or other methods instead of a monthly fee. A game like this probably has very low overhead compared to a typical MMORPG which is why the monthly fee is needed. If WoW for example didn't charge $15 a month, it would no longer exist.

That is the method i would prefer. If instead you bought the content you wanted and the influence you needed/desired then that would or even could exceed monthly rates.

Also lets you pay when you want to and not when you dont have the money etc. In this economic climate i think that is very valuable.

Darathor
10-07-2009, 09:11 AM
If WoW for example didn't charge $15 a month, it would no longer exist.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you can't say something like this. No one has any idea how it really would have gone if WoW didn't cost a monthly and possibly did something else.

But yes, being able to pay for some new units, quests, upgrades, and resources and only when you want to, it sounds quite nice and better than some other systems. It lets the player decide whether or not he wants to pay/spend influence on something. You can do it when you want, or wait for it to become free or don't bother with it at all.

bogdan1281
10-07-2009, 09:31 AM
Hy - first Post :)

My proposal would be to do the same as other developers (Mount&Blade). for ex. I've bought in 2005 the game - and played as beta until last year :) when it was launched.

The Beta buyer had a discount (whole game - beta and finished product- 19 $) and I've tested and enjoyed more that several thousands :) of hours of gameplay. (Currently I am a beta tester for their M&B: Warband).

The advantage for them was that they got a much needed capital for development.
The advantage for me was the opportunity to play a real nice game (and additional mods) for years.

Short, I would prefer a one time fee that would allow me to play the beta (in stead of writing an essay :) ) and then continue to play the game.

In this one time fee I would have access to only one kingdom / region / continent. For additional regions --- I could buy a card or something.

thx,